Curse

J3mo · May 02, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

I don't think it'll go away, but it's nicer to look when you are buying.
Also it would be nice if I didn't have to travel all the time between LA, Kaineng and Kamadan.

SotiCoto · May 02, 2007, 12:51 PM // 12:51

The only times I've spammed have been sardonically...

Satirically...

I think it was something like "WTS Blow-Jobs for Crack" or something like that... followed by "WTS [some other seller]'s Mother, 10g" ...

But seriously? To actually try and sell something?
Nah.
I don't spam... I've tried to sell in local chat, but I always type those things out in full and never repeat the same message twice.

Lydz · May 02, 2007, 01:29 PM // 13:29

I think people are too lazy to put their item up on auction AND spam local chat

Keithark · May 02, 2007, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Dozens, if not hundreds of threads have been made asking for trade houses, auction houses and basically an improved trade system.

We do need one, there is no denying that.

One of the main reasons people ask for this, is to remove spamming in local and trade chat. But would it really stop, or reduce the spamming of <WTS> and/or <WTB> in the chat window?

I dont see how it would.

Anet gave us the "party search" facility which lets you post trade messages. Its not perfect, mainly due to its limit on text length, but its there to use. Does anyone use it?

No!!

Anet could quite easily improve the existing "party search" and let us enter larger sentences. They could add icons for the items, and descriptions, and perhaps a way to place a bid. They could add a search feature to find what your after, and let us catergorise stuff we sell into sections. They could make it include all towns and outposts accross the games.

They could improve it to the point that it was perfect. They could make it exactly what we want. It could have 100% funcationality.

But would anyone use it?

Would people wake up one day, and see the changes and think "Im going to stop spamming local chat and trade and use this amazing tool instead"?

I doubt it.

Maybe I'm being pesermistic and negative, but we all know the mentality of traders in GWs. Traders want to get as much attention as they can to sell an item.

They wouldnt be satisfied with posting ONE message on the "party search" and then sitting back and waiting.

They want to be stood at storage, spamming "<WTS>" over and over again, until someone sees it. And because they wont use it, no one else will!

People will think that spammers have an advantage over those who use a trading tool. And they will if no one checks it.

To fix trading, we need to do more then just give add a flashy tool with 100% functionality. We need to remove this mentality of spamming. But whats the first thing you learn when you start playing?

"If you want to sell something, you need to get a persons attention. You need to make your message stand out more then the other guy's"!

The result is everyone spams at some point in the game. We all reach a point where we need cash fast, and want to sell an item badly and we resort to spamming.

Id be surprised if one single player could say "I've never spammed. I've never posted the same message atleast 6 times in 2 minutes".

Everyone learns that, and everyone does it. Thats what we're up against in trying to change trading in game. If we can fix that then we can focus on fancy tools.

Fix the spamming mentality before we try to add improved trading facilities.

Here is the deal...If we want to sell something using trade window we have to be standing there in town doing nothing so may as well spam..if they have auction houses we can leave our shi...erm....stuff there and go play the game..and if we are not there we cannot spam. Make a store system where you can price an item drop it off and come back in a week and get the money from its sale ..or better yet the money from the sell could be automatically put onto the accoount or character who dropped the item off at the "store" sure there will still be a few who spam, but I'd bet there would be so few that it would not be profitable any more after a while and they would quit too

Krispy · May 02, 2007, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Fix the spamming mentality before we try to add improved trading facilities.

Until there's an efficient alternative to spamming, people won't stop. I turn local and trade chat off because of the incessant spam and only turn them on if I'm trying to sell or buy something.

Spamming, right now, is the only worthwhile way to get something sold. The trade/party search is useless when trying to sell a green with lots of great attributes.

i.e. "S: Max Eternal Bow, Req 9, 15^5" damn...no room for the 20/20 sundering, +30 health or what I want for it. Just saying "Perfect Eternal Bow - 100k" isn't enough to get people interested.

It's only good for named greens (no details, tho), crafting materials, keys and dyes. Whenever I'm selling any of those, I use the search window. It sometimes takes forever to even sell a black dye...

Some other improvements? Make it useful across the world, not one district of one town. It's insanely dull to stand in LA for 3 hours waiting for someone to see your ad and ask about it. I'd rather place the ad and keep playing. Let someone PM while I'm soloing UW or getting HM titles. I can always zone back and make the trade.

In the end, it's up to Anet to do something about it. Judging by the sheer number of threads & posts about the trade situation, players want it. However, considering how long these threads have been posted, it's unlikely anything will be done about it.

Bryant Again · May 02, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

The Party Search trade option is not efficent at all. Like Krispy has said, all you can enter in is "WTS this item here". You can't list stats or the price. Just the WTS and the name. People won't look into it if they don't know what it is.

In order to lessen the spam (you can't eliminate it), we will need a much, much better alternative that will be both efficent and easy to use. Like many have said, WoW has a pretty decent example pf an auction house, something other MMO's are likely to follow. It would have to be quick and easy: enter in the item, enter in the starting price and buy-out price, then wait for it to be sold. It would also have to be physical in the sense that it was an actual building, or tent, or set-up next to the storage - something noticable.

And yes. WoW still has spam even with the auction house, but I can easily say that it's 1/100th of the amount of Guild Wars spam.

shirosae · May 02, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

From my own experience in FFXI:

An auction house would make trade spam almost extinct, by virtue of effectiveness.

FFXI had four auction houses. One was assigned to each continent within the game world. This allowed players to leave things up for sale without being present, but not over the entire game world. A reasonable facsimile would be an auction house in Droks, Kaineng, and Kamadan. These auction houses would allow you to place an item on sale, with a fixed reserve price, and then do other things.

Players would access the auction house, look up the item, and offer a bid. If any instances of that item were up for lower than the bid, they bought the lowest priced item.

Also in FFXI was the bazaar system. Players could flag items within their inventory as on sale, again with a price tag. Players could browser a players bazaar by examining them, and buy or not, with the seller's side of things being automatic after the initial configuration.

Anyway, the result was this:

There was still trade spam... for consumable items. You could maybe sell something quickly if you were desperate, wanted to avoid the auction house fee, and got very lucky.

As such, the vast majority of trade was done by auction and not by shouting.

The FFXI bazaar system had the flaw that there was no zone-wide directory of items on sale - you had to manually go check people for a list of what they were selling. Also, the search function within FFXI was too small for an item list. As such, bazaaring items was inefficient. People would sit in heavy-traffic areas to maximise exposure, because there was no global or zone-wide directory.

Now: the success of the FFXI auction house came from the fact that you could do other things while your items were selling. That's all Guild Wars needs. Trade spam is already so inefficient and time-consuming that any passive trade system would kill it easily.

Sure, some people would still trade spam. Those people would sell virtually nothing unless they were significantly undercutting the auction price (happened quite a lot in FFXI with consumables), or had items that were not up for auction (happened occasionally in FFXI).

Sir Skullcrasher · May 02, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

I don't know if it would work. They put in the search function on GW and that is rarely used by anyone there and we still still alot of trade spamming on both regular chat channel and trade channel.

GranDeWun · May 02, 2007, 05:57 PM // 17:57

What eliminates spam is a trading system that works in an unattended fashion; no one will sit there spamming if they can do something else and still get their stuff sold. Check out the EVE Online system...

Mouser · May 02, 2007, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranDeWun

What eliminates spam is a trading system that works in an unattended fashion; no one will sit there spamming if they can do something else and still get their stuff sold. Check out the EVE Online system...

Exactly. I have tons of crud that I'd like to sell, but I would much rather be out missioning, questing, getting more crud, etc., rather than sitting in a town spamming, hoping someone will see my message among the hundreds of others, or perhaps opening the search window and have enough patience to scroll down to my entry.

Unfortunately, it seems that this is Anet's idea of "character interaction." God forbid that we have a town that is devoid of sales spam, so we could actually interact in a meaningful way...

I played SWG for 2 years before coming over to GW. The ability to put items up for auction in a centralized location for everyone to see prevented 90% of the sales spamming in that game (except for the ultra high-end items that had higher price caps than the centralized sales system allowed, or spamming for particular services.) You put an item up for sale in the system, someone buys it, the system handles the transaction, I get my money, the customer gets his item, you're done. All the while, I was off on another planet, enjoying PLAYING the game.

You're always going to get spammers, but an auction house would allow those of us who would prefer to, to play the game, rather than waste hours sitting in town advertising an item.

Zedd Kun · May 02, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Actually this would be a great idea if you could go outside the town and close the trade window, so you don't have to wait for any bids. I think it would have stopped spamming, as people could do something else while selling.

GO GO GO!!

Oofus · May 02, 2007, 07:40 PM // 19:40

The only places where sell/buy spam is excessive is in LA Am D1, Kamadan AM D1, and Ascalon Int D1(only durring certain times of the day). KC Am D1 was a major trade area for a while but not anymore, and Droks is no longer either. So given that there are only 3 towns, 1 district in each town, where spam is an issue, all you need to do to avoid spam is avoid the stated districts in the stated towns. If you need to find a party in LA then don't go to Am D1, very simple really, you usually have 5 other districts in LA AM to go to. There realy is no reason to try to "fix" anything. Just avoid the 3 places where it's an issue if it bothers you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranDeWun

What eliminates spam is a trading system that works in an unattended fashion; no one will sit there spamming if they can do something else and still get their stuff sold. Check out the EVE Online system...

I think it likely that many people would then use such a system in addition to spamming rather then instead of spamming.

Tonepalu · May 02, 2007, 07:56 PM // 19:56

You guys have some great ideas, theres only one problem. These ideas have been in the spotlight since I started playing 22 months ago. The harsh reality is that Anet doesnt give A shit about how unbelievably boring it is to sit in town sifting through mound after mound of spam, to find anything remotely useful. I've been playing Archlord lately, it has A wonderful Auction House system.
Its safe to say that in my 2months of playing it I've yet to witness trade spam for anything that can be sold in the Auction House.

Im wondering though, and have wondered before why an efficient trade system hasn't ever been implemented for Guild Wars. The whole go and randomly spew boatloads of WTS's in every district of every trade hub town is just too damn boring.

When I bought Guild Wars, I had no idea I was buying Trade Tycoon in disguise.
As it is, either succumb to spamming your sell/buy messages or wait till you see someone selling/buying what you have/need( the latter here is quite rare though lol).

Blackest Rose · May 02, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

People will use the most effective solution.

If an auction house gave exta capability over WTS spam then people will use it.
If it doesn't then people won't.

Party search isn't used because most towns only have 1 districts nowadays.... and it was implemented too late.... and it doesn't give enough advantage over LFG.

But personally I use party search to select heroes/hechman directly since the day of release - it's simply better than running around and clicking on them.
There's a definite advantage there.

Of course spam won't stop but it's really a joke right now - ah well - Anet have thrown in the towel on this one as being too hard.... real pity.

aaT · May 02, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Money talks, bullsh*t walks.

WTS WTS WTS